Real Talk, Good Action: The Healing Process

January 27, 2022

>> STEPHANIE HAKULIN: Hello. Welcome.

>> KRISTEN POSTON: Welcome, everyone, welcome.

>> STEPHANIE HAKULIN: Let's keep in mind before we begin the discussion that healing is very key. It's important. So before we proceed, let me introduce myself. My name is Stephanie.

>> KRISTEN POSTON: And my name is Kirsten Poston.

>> STEPHANIE HAKULIN: So we'll be discussing dismantling racism. Before we introduce the committee, I want to introduce Melissa, who is the NAD President. Melissa.

>> MELISSA DRAGANAC-HAWK: Hello, everyone. Hello and good evening or good afternoon. Thank you so much for joining the webinar tonight. First I wanted to talk a little bit about how we set up dismantling racism within our Deaf Community and this series. I want to thank the community members for the open dialogues that we've had to recognize racism within the Deaf Community. It was brought to our Task Force. And during our Annual Conference. And one of -- one of the members -- one of our top priorities we made it was for us as a committee, for instance, Kirsten and Stephanie, to lead that committee on dismantling racism within our community. So we have progressed forward with this initiative. So this is an opportunity for dialogue. Racism is still prevalent. After so many years, it's still prevailing and prevalent within our community. And this is a one stop, one-stop shop in a sense, through dialogues. Through hearing, listening and actions. So I want to say thank you to the two of you, the appointed Board Member Kirsten and Stephanie, for leading this discussion.

>> STEPHANIE HAKULIN: Thank you. As has already been mentioned, there are five priorities that NAD has been working tirelessly on. And we will share the survey results here, as you can see on your screen. There are approximately 483 persons that had participated in the survey. 87% said racism exists in the Deaf Community. 95% said there's not enough resources. Regarding racism or anything of the like on this topic. 63% agree Deaf First is problematic. Next slide, please. It may be hard to see this small font on the slide here. But we will email everyone these slides so you will have an opportunity to see it after this session. But systemic racism is an item here. Individual racism, racial justice. Colorblindness. Tokenism. And the like. So the top five that you members wanted to see are listed here on this next slide. There are some variances in this list. BIPOC, Latinx and others Listed these five items here: Systemic racism, Restorative justice, Inclusion, Intersectionality, And tokenism. From White persons, again, there was some similarities, as you notice the top item here is: systemic racism, Restorative justice, racial justice, Privilege, And anti-racism. And everyone did agree upon these items here: Systemic racism, restorative justice, racial justice, tokenism and intersectionality. We will throughout this session have various speakers to speak on these topics. Next slide. The committee is comprised of Alan Wilding and Teddy Dorsette. Who are the co-chairs of the committee. Teddy. Please share your video.

>> TEDDY DORSETTE: Hello, Stephanie. Stephanie and Kirsten. And hello, everyone. My name is Teddy Dorsette III. I am the Co-Chair for the dismantling racism committee . I would like to introduce my fellow Co-Chair, Alan.

>> ALAN WILDING: Hello, everyone, I hope everyone can see me. My name is Alan Wilding. I am the Co-Chair, along with my colleague, Teddy, for this committee. Thank you, Stephanie and Kirsten. For all of the hard work and efforts that you have done and for this session.

>> STEPHANIE HAKULIN: Okay. You can stop sharing your screen here and we will introduce the others who will be involved in the committee.

>> ALAN WILDING: So Teddy and I have a lot we would like to share but for the sake of time, we will try to be succinct in our comments. Teddy and I would like to recognize who else has contributed on the committee. Nicholas Lalanne. Elvia Guillermo. Cookie Roang. Crystal Kelley Schwartz. Crystal Kelley Schwartz will actually be the moderator and lead the discussion for today's session. We also have Elvis Zornoza. We do meet biweekly. And we recognize that is a lot of commitment, time commitment. And we want to thank them so much for their efforts. There are a few things that we would like to share with everyone. And first regarding the curriculum and the curriculum that we have been developing up until this point. Based on the community needs and based on the comments that we have garnered from the community. And we have gotten that information via interviews from stakeholders all across the U.S . And we had developed a curriculum based on that feedback we had gotten from those stakeholders. There were three eight-hour days. And we actually had expected it would take approximately three months to go through this work. It would take a lot of self-analysis. A lot of reflection. And then the second and third day would be eight hours each. And they would be split up into their own perspective modules. The first is to take a look inward. Understand what racism means. And what that means to me. And the second module in the curriculum would be focusing on the system at large. It could be the educational system. The Government. The political system. And various organizations. And how those organizations and those various systems impact racism. The third module would be action. After you have proceeded through the Modules 1 and 2, how can you take action? What steps can you take to actually progress in the goal of dismantling racism? So we are working together on developing those modules. And that curriculum. And that curriculum will be available to any organizations across the U.S. that want access to the curriculum. They can reach out to us. And we can provide trainings and workshops. Again, in a three eight-hour days and I'll let Teddy my colleague and Co-Chair explain a little bit more about the development. Teddy .

>> TEDDY DORSETTE: Thank you, Alan. Alan gave a brief synopsis of what we have done up until this point. In dismantling racism. And based on the feedback we had gotten from the survey, we see that many persons agree there are not enough resources. And there's not enough that we have -- that is provided out there that is accessible to help us to understand how we can actually do the work. In the social justice realm. And actually not just simply understanding it. But taking action. And taking the lead in dismantling racism. And find these efforts and opportunities to do so. So the panel we felt was the best way to do this. And so we would like to invite the panelists to be included in this conversation.

>> STEPHANIE HAKULIN: Thank you so much, Alan and Teddy. Again, we all are doing this work, as well, as a whole. So we are doing this as one so I just want to say thank you to the two of you for co-leading this.

>> ALAN WILDING: And we will be providing certification or a Certificate of Completion for the three modules. NAD would do so. And you will also get credited for CEUs for completing those modules. And for CEUs would be of interest to those that have ASL TA and other accreditations that need CEUs to be tracked.

>> STEPHANIE HAKULIN: Great thank you so much to the two of you.

>> ALAN WILDING: I will stop my video.

>> STEPHANIE HAKULIN: So I want to go ahead and introduce Crystal if she doesn't mind coming on as well as Cookie. Excuse me. If Nicholas and Cookie don't mind coming on.

>>Nicholas: Hello, Stephanie, thank you for having us. My name is Nicholas. I'm from Vermont. And part of this committee.

>>Cookie: Hello, everyone, I'm happy to be here this evening . I'm looking forward to learning and basically incorporating this information that I learn here tonight to introduce myself I am Cookie Brand. Again I'm honored to be here and so happy to see everyone, to see as many people as we have here tonight.

>> STEPHANIE HAKULIN: Thank you. Now, everyone in attendance I will ask that you please hold your questions. And you can actually use the chat function for any of your questions. But first who will be moderating this session is Crystal, Crystal Kelley Schwartz. You have the floor.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Hello, everyone. Before we begin, I want to describe my background for anyone who needs visual descriptions. So again, I am Crystal Kelley Schwartz. I am a Creole French Black woman. I have black wavy hair with earrings and a blacktop and a blue background. I'm also smiling. It's a very excited smile because I'm very excited to be here this evening. This is called "The Healing Process". So first I want to recognize our native land. So we are gathered here on land of the Indigenous Native Americans. And we ask that you join us in acknowledging and remembering that their communities, their elders, both past and present as well as future generations. I want to recognize them and take a moment for that.

>> STEPHANIE HAKULIN: Crystal, if you could adjust your camera angle. Thank you.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Also I did want to add that again, I do have a blue background. So again, I wanted to take a moment to recognize the Indigenous land. Oftentimes when we have NAD meetings, we always want to acknowledge the Native lands. So I thank NAD for bringing that to our front. So I haven't yet taken a look at the chat just to see who is present with us this evening. But I have heard we have a large crowd this evening. And we actually have reached our maximum. So I want to say thank you to each and every one who have participated here tonight to engage in each part of this healing process. Again, welcome. I ask that each of you here tonight participate, engage. By paying attention. I know that there is going to be a lot of sharing. But be open to that. Be open to listening. And be a part of the process that is in relation to healing. But I'll explain more about what exactly does healing look like. But first I did want to emphasize that within the chat, again, like I said, I'm not monitoring it quite yet. But we do have someone behind the scenes that will help me monitor the chat for questions, comments, so if anything comes up, they will let me know of what's going on in the chat. So I do want to just share that So again, I do want to also mention to please be respectful of what you share in the chat. There are the four of us and we want everyone to be engaged and participatory so please be respectful and mindful of what exactly you share within the chat. Actually I'm thinking Stephanie -- actually, there will be someone who will be monitoring the chat. But if we need to, we can turn off the chat. I'm sorry to say that, but we are -- hey now, we can definitely turn off the chat if people are not being respectful so I just wanted to just bring that to everyone's attention. So I just want to make sure that everyone can see me. If not, please notify me within the chat, if anything is off kilter with my camera or my background. Okay. It looks like I am all good. So we have some illustrious panelists today. My friends we have Cizzy Boggan. Hello. She currently is in Washington D.C . We have Nida Din. Who is from I think from Austin, Texas. Right? You're from Austin, are you in Austin right now.

>> NIDA DIN: Yeah, I am.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Okay now. I'm so excited for you to be joining me tonight. And we also have our other panelist Yoon, as well.

>> YOON LEE: Hi there.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Excellent. So I want each and every one of you to go ahead and introduce yourself. But also I do want you to give a visual description. But before I actually do that, I wanted to go through some housekeeping or some protocol first. So if any of you in the audience have a question or a comment, you have plenty of time to join in on this discussion. For now we are not interrupting the panelists. We're going to allow our panelists to have our conversations, I as the moderator, asking them questions. So it's essentially our time to have that discussion. So if you did want to have a question or if you had a comment, please go ahead and put it inside the chat. And again, someone will be monitoring that to make sure that your question or comment gets answered. So you do have two options. One, you can place it in the chat aforementioned or you can type in the chat that you would like to sign in American Sign Language and someone will activate your video for you to come on screen to sign your question. So those are the two ways you can participate tonight. So again, while you're listening tonight, please keep your heart and mind open. And make sure that you're engaged in our conversation. And if something is triggering for you or you start to feel a little disheartened or what have you, feel free to take a moment. A moment to leave, come back. Regather yourself. And you're welcome to come back and re-engage. I want to encourage everyone to stay in this moment. The big picture of this whole night and this whole process is healing. So I want to acknowledge and recognize that. So this is going to be a part of your healing journey. I also want to identify respect. Respect for our colleagues. Respect for each other. We're not preaching to people. We're all adults here. Right? We all know how to behave. And we know how to act. And so that's the reason why we're here. We have good vibes. We have good energy. And we're authentic with each other. We want to deal with our emotions, which could be negative. But we want to not abandon those emotions, abandon those experiences, NAD if you want to have someone connect with you, we're welcome to connect you with the right people to help you get connected in the community. In terms of your healing journey. Again, it could be through friends, outside of NAD or mentors. But again, it's most important to be ready from here tonight. So we will have an example of that tonight. With this dialogue we'll have tonight on racism. So now, that aside, we have Cicely on screen and Nida on screen as well as Yoon our panelists here tonight if you can go ahead and introduce yourself starting with a visual description. Cizzy.

>> CICELY BOGGAN: Good evening, everyone, I'm Cicely I'm a Black Indigenous woman I'm wearing black framed glasses. I have brown hair and I have a gray slap cap on my head and I have a red cardigan, my background is blue .

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Thank you. Nida.

>> NIDA DIN: Hi there. My name is Nida Din. I'm wearing a black cardigan with a blue shirt. And I have wavy hair that is side parted. And I am a Pakistani American with light brown skin . And my background is white. And I'm sitting on a chair that has a hardback. And I have some back support here.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Great, thank you, Nida. Yoon.

>> YOON LEE: Hello, my name is Yoon, I have glasses and white hair, that is very short. I am Korean Asian . And I have a black T-shirt with a gray background. And blue light shining on me.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Great, thank you, Yoon. Is this the correct sign name for you.

>> YOON LEE: Yep.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: I think I've been signing it wrong all along. How does that make you feel if someone signs it incorrectly?

>> YOON LEE: Oh, that's not a big deal.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Well, definitely feel free to correct me if I do it wrong. Maybe some people are not intentional but that actually leads me to my next question, well, I guess the first question because we have just been kind of introducing each other and doing a little bit of chatting but nonetheless, what is everyone's sign names and why and how did you get that sign name? We'll start with Yoon.

>> YOON LEE: So I was actually born in Seoul South Korea. And I moved to the U.S. in 1974 . So I went to a mainstream school. And teachers at that time, they were using an old sign for Korea, near the eyes. So that was also a similar sign for China and Vietnam. So when I would come to the classroom, people would look at me and they would say, you know, y-o-o-n Yoon is your name so they would put the Y next to the eyes and that was my name sign. And I was 10. So what was I supposed to know about, you know, the implications of that name sign? And then the next year, my father decided to give me an American name. Simon. And the teacher said, oh, we have to use the sign name throughout school. So I just accepted what the school had told me. And so this is why my name sign is like this. And I think in the 1990s, you know, I thought, oh, you know, there was a push to change the signs for various Asian countries. So you know, there was stigma that was happening with those name signs. So that's when I actually realized my name sign was actually based on the old sign for various eastern Asian countries. But when I was young, I didn't actually know.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Wow, it seems like you already jumped right into the discussion, Yoon. Right? In terms of, you know, systemic racism. We're actually going to talk more about that. So thank you that you felt comfortable bringing up how you got your sign name. So now I want to ask you, do you prefer -- do you prefer the old sign name or do you want me to just fingerspell it.

>> YOON LEE: Oh I still use this name sign.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Yeah, you -- it could trigger back those moments of how that sign name came about. But you know in a sense, there's a good reason that it came out that way.

>> YOON LEE: I mean that's become part of who I am so I still use it.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Right. Cicely, what's your sign name and what's the significance behind it?

>> CIZZY BOGGAN: I saw you having hesitation to do Cizzy or my sign name but my sign name has changed over time so I've actually had four sign names over time. And it's interesting. Because the longer the person knows me, they will use that older sign name. So for example, it was C -- my mom gave me was shaking in mid ear so during school I used to dance a lot so it then changed over to the sign that semblance of dancing. So in high school, after I left high school, that sign name went away. And so I then was thinking, okay, what's the next sign name? So I was thinking maybe just fingerspelling Cicely but people struggled to do that so then they said Cizzy, c-i-z-z-y so I was thinking in high school a teacher would call me that. So one student was like -- one student in another classroom, a White hearing teacher they actually gave me the sign to resemble queen. And I said no. And I went back and forth with this White hearing teacher and I said no so one Deaf student looked at me and said hmmm, you're now Cizzy or Cicely as in cat or looks like the sign for cat. And so that Deaf person gave me the sign for cat and it stuck with me since.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Great so one of the things I noticed about the sign names was relationships. And the relationships that that you had for instance with your students and your peers, right? It gave you that opportunity to develop a rapport for them for them to give you a sign name. I.e. cat or Cizzy. So I noticed that during this conversation. Nida.

>> NIDA DIN: So I used to have a sign name which was near my mouth because of my dimples. And a lot of female sign names are on the lower half of the face. But a lot of people didn't actually know how to spell my name. They would know my name sign but they might call me Nadia, Nina, various N names, but not my actual name Nida. So a few years ago I decided to do a little bit of a social experiment to see if people would remember my name. Because it's only four letters. I don't think it's a particularly difficult name. So I did a little bit of an analysis. And it does feel good for me to actually spell my name. Because of how easily it flows. So I went ahead and dropped my previous sign name and I actually spell it. And that actually has helped people to remember my name. And that gives me an opportunity to also correct people if they happen to misspell it. And it really has worked and helped a lot of folks to actually remember my name.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Right, Nida for me is very easy to remember the spelling. Just because it also -- it reminds me of another individual and where in terms of having like ethics, right? Having the same ethnicity. So having the significance behind someone's ethnicity. And that name. Is there any correlation with that.

>> NIDA DIN: So it's actually an Arabic name. So a lot of people in the Middle East and also within India also have that same name of Nida. So it just happened that my parents had liked that name and that's why they named me Nida. And really, there are various meanings but I know there's one that actually means morning dew in Arabic so that fits me very well because I'm actually a morning person. I get up pretty early. And you can see how much energy I still have now. Right? Imagine that in the morning.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: I mean, again, thank you for joining, because I know you're a busy, busy person. And I mean, again, thank you for, you know, sharing the significance of your name, the spelling. And I want to recognize that. As you share a bit more -- yes, Nida, did you want to add something.

>> NIDA DIN: Yeah I also think it might be a good idea to explain how it's actually pronounced it's pronounced Nida, I'm not sure if the interpreter is aware or if the audience is aware but it's actually pronounced Nida.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Great, thank you. So before we move on, I just want to make sure everyone can still see me. I know I have Stephanie on another screen kind of giving me some prompts. So actually let me test something out here. Give me one second. Okay. How is that?

>> YOON LEE: Yeah, actually could you move your camera a little bit further down.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Okay is this better?

>> YOON LEE: It's better.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: So I have to say I'm on a rolling balance right now of. To help me with my posture. But I'm hoping that this is -- you're able to see me. Again, this whole journey is a part of the healing process. So even this I consider part of the healing process. But nonetheless, toilet paper to the rescue because that's what's going to help to sit up a little more straight. But anyways, I wanted to get a feel of who is in our audience, the demographics. So Lizzie, do you mind showing a poll? Because I would love for everyone to answer this. Just so I can get a sense of the demographics joining us tonight. And again, I'm hoping that everyone can participate. Again, I would love to see who is here tonight.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: So we are taking a look at the poll results. I see that the numbers are in. So African American or Black is 12%. We have Asian American participants tonight. I'm just getting some clarification offscreen. So again, African American/Black is 12% joining us this evening. We have Asian American. We have them at 7%. Biracial/multiracial individuals, 6%. Just getting clarification offscreen. Yes, a total of 6%. Caucasian/White we have that total of 61%. Hispanic/Latino/Latina or Latinx at 9%. Native American, 1%. And other as 3%. And individuals that have a preference not to share is 1%. So again, thank you to everyone that participated in that poll to give us an understanding of who is with us tonight. Nida?

>> NIDA DIN: Yeah and this might be a good time for me to talk about Asian Americans in particular. So I am part of the Asian American demographic. But as a Pakistani. But Asia in general is huge. We have South Asia. We have East Asia. We have west Asia. And we also have Russia . And all of that, you know, we all look very different. And have very different cultures. But we're all considered Asian American. And I have to wonder, are we really? Because we kind of have these different regions of East, West, South but that's something I wanted to comment so you could think about that. A lot of people associate Asia with East Asia. But not necessarily with South Asia. And you really have to point this out to people and say yes, no, Pakistan is actually in Asia so that's something I wanted to mention.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: I see you. I think oftentimes people realize that oh, my gosh, I'm more than one. So then it's called multiracial. So you have several identities or several races within you. But each are a different part of who you are, where you're from, your history. So to force you to pick just one box or limit you in one box, if you will, it doesn't do good, sometimes the system forces us or pigeonholes us where we shouldn't have to check any if we hold several identities. So my experience -- I say that Cicely wants to respond as well as Yoon I know Cicely before was sharing she understood. And again going back to Nida what you were saying that, right, there are different types of identities within the Asian culture. Right? So again, I think it's important that this event, for instance, tonight is happening for you to bring that up, I appreciate that. Because Asian doesn't just look one way. There are a myriad of different identities within Asian culture. Yoon?

>> YOON LEE: At Gallaudet University there's an organization that is labeled the Oriental club. And that word I don't feel is actually appropriate. You might use that word to describe food. But you don't use oriental to describe people. So now we use the term Asian. But from that point, that actually does cause a little bit of contention with other areas in Asia, such as with India or West Asia. So we actually decided to change the name to Asia Pacific islander organization. So that encompasses east yaish so that also is -- East Asia so that's also Asian Pacific American. But a lot of older members actually wanted to keep the former name, even though the name has been deemed inappropriate. And here in California we have an organization that is the Southern California Asian deaf Asian American association. And there's always a -- you know, a fight about where to eat. Do we pick Indian food? Do we pick some other kind of Asian food. So there's never really any good resolution because Asia is such a huge place. And my wife is actually Indian. And we know, you know, even though we're both from Asia, we're from very different parts of Asia and we navigate that together. But the point is, there's no real good solution for encompassing that term.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: This is Crystal speaking. One, just for individuals that are Deaf Blind, one, we want to sign a bit slower and we also want to identify who is speaking before making your comments. So I just wanted to insert that before we continue. So this is Crystal speaking again. Again, that happens in the Black Community, as well. Where there is an umbrella but there are a variety of different races within the -- and ethnicities within the umbrella of Blackness. So people understand where they stand. That happens in the Latinx community, as well. So I'm glad that the both of you have brought that up. Because it helps others to understand that we can't clump everyone together. We're not a monolith. We're not all in one encompassing. So that does happen in other communities. Cicely?

>> CICELY BOGGAN: This is Cicely signing. So in response to what Nida shared, races are -- identify a larger group of persons. And we understand that there's a subset of ethnicities within those races. So I just wondered your thoughts on the poll.

>> NIDA DIN: So Asia encompasses like South Asia, the Middle East, eastern Asia. . Russia -- well, I actually can't speak for Russia. Maybe that's considered North Asia. I'm actually not sure. But definitely the Middle East. South Asia and East Asia. There's a lot of discussion among other Asian folks and unfortunately when we have events, you know, like northern Asia like Russia isn't actually included. So we don't actually know what they prefer .

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: I'm sorry, Yoon, what did you say.

>> YOON LEE: For example, Mongolian .

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Nida, thank you for your comment and mentioning that. That's important to recognize, to know, how people can feel included and comfortable. And speaking of that, I'm wondering, what's your race? How do you identify yourself? So can you share a little bit about that? Go ahead and introduce yourself from that lens, what is your identity? Nida?

>> NIDA DIN: This is Nida speaking so I think it really depends. It really depends on which community I'm involved with. And what -- you know, what I feel like I need to share. You know? Within the Deaf Community I don't have to say I'm Deaf because I can just sign. But if I'm with a hearing interpreter that might be different. Sometimes I identify myself as a Pakistani-American. And the country is actually spelled Pakistan. But we add an I to identify a person from Pakistan. So that means, you know, with the hyphenated American, that means I was born and raised here. As opposed to somebody who just identifies as Pakistani being raised in Pakistan.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Thank you, Nida. Cicely?

>> CICELY BOGGAN: To be honest, I didn't even -- I didn't say who was signing, my apologies. This is Cicely signing. So I say that I am a colonized person. Often my parents were actually born a year after World War II or excuse me after a month prior to that. So my mother's mother is an Indigenous person but identifies as both. I identify as Black because that's how the world sees me. And as I got older, oftentimes I would be asked the question, what are you? Who are you? You don't look Black. And now I'm realizing from my mother and my father's side, if I identify as Black, then I am, by default, rejecting their identity and what they had -- their roots. And those generations prior to them. So I am an Indigenous person. I honor their roots and their ancestry.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: I can see that each of us are on a journey, including Cicely, as she was mentioning, in terms of figuring out exactly who we are. It's beautiful for us to know what is our makeup. Who has created us? As you mentioned intersectionality. Knowing our Blackness. Speaking for myself. Right? What exactly is within that or encompassing in that Blackness or that particular race we identify with or races we identify with. Yoon in.

>> YOON LEE: For myself, I moved in 1974 -- sorry; this is Yoon speaking. And you know those like Bruce Lee movies? Do you know the last name Lee. I often got made fun of growing up because of my last name. And I do have a Black Belt in tae kwon do. But still my identity -- they would cull me the kung fu brother. Or the -- call me -- or the brother of Bruce Lee to make fun of me and when I arrived I actually had no idea what it meant to have racism in America . Because there were -- like I never fit in here in America. And a lot of Americans can't identify the difference between Koreans, Japanese, various East Asians . So my grandfather was actually the king in Korea. So there was the name Coo that goes back 22 generations . So I had left my hometown after the Korean War in 1965. And when I was born, my country was completely ravaged by war. It was a very horrible situation. So we moved to America for a better life. And I always had this feeling of wanting to go back. I do feel like my country was destroyed for various political reasons. And I didn't think that racism was interfering with my upbringing here at school or in life. But I remember my father saying that I'm actually .5 American. So like my father immigrated. And I'm .5. Because I was 10 when I moved to America. So I am actually very American in how I behave. You know, I dated a blond girl. You know, I played football. But again, when my daughter was born, I guess I'm not sure what to call her, is she like 1.0? Is she a full American? So now, you know, no one actually says Asian. Like I identify as Asian. But it's kind of hard for me to work with the various dipts that I have like Deafness and -- identities that I have like Deafness and Asian, Korean. Sometimes I would introduce myself Deaf First. And then other times I would say I'm Korean first.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Right, this is Crystal speaking, just to respond to Yoon, I noticed a few times that you are a proud American. And that seems like that's a part of your identity. I mean, you weren't born here but most of your life resided here in America. So to be grateful for that. And at the same time you are also grateful for your history, your ancestry that you come from. So you're right. Especially nowadays. I have a couple of friends in East Asia and they will say pretty much the same that you have said. You know, they are not proud so much to mention that they are from Asia just because of all of the political upheaval, et cetera. You know, they are not one of those get on the bandwagon, I'm Asian, yes, they tend to be very quiet about that identity so I'm curious to know regarding your identity in these times that we find and do you feel as though you want to reconnect with your Asian identity? Or are you still apprehensive about it? Or do you fully identify just as American and as Deaf? That's just a question that I want to throw out that for -- give you some time to think about. Cicely or Nida?

>> NIDA DIN: This is Nida signing. There are two comments that came to mind when Yoon was speaking. So racial marginalization. When people come up to me, they always ask me, where are you from? And that's really not fair. That has a bit of racism embedded. Because you would never ask, you know, if I was a White person, I would never be asked, where are you from? It's because I look different. So sometimes I actually challenge them and I say, I'm an American. And they say, oh, well, you don't really look American. Where are you like from-from? And I tell them, I was -- I tell them that I was raised in America. So I have to challenge their idea of what an American actually looks like. So sometimes people will assume that I'm actually Latina or Middle Eastern rather than Pakistani so when I tell them that I'm Pakistani, they say, no, you're so light skinned. Like you can't possibly be Pakistani. Like hello, I know my heritage. And ancestry. So you can't really tell me what a Pakistani person should look like or what they can be. So it's a similar concept to knowing you know as a Deaf person, assuming all Deaf people can read or lipread or sign or speak for themselves. So there's a lot of stereotypes that are associated, a lot of folks make assumptions about me. And they assumed that I can't be Pakistani because I don't fit the stereotype of staying at home. I don't have a husband. I don't have kids. I'm an independent career-driven woman. I'm loud. There's this stereotype that I don't fit. But when you have already experienced that oppression from folks, hearing people, it makes it really hard for me to understand how you can do the same thing to me.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Well, let me break all of this down for the folks in the audience. So microaggressions. Right? Is what you're speaking of. It happens very often in actions. People make a comment without thinking, for instance, or maybe unintentionally they actually cause someone to feel inferior or, you know, not like they belong. So we think about how people have already made the assumptions about me. That's microaggressions through actions where you can make someone feel belittled what you just shared is a good example of a microaggression where people, again, decide who you are. Oh, that's you. You're not Pakistani. Or oh, you're not Black or you are Black or you're queer or you're not queer. Oh, you must be Italian because you do this, this and that. Or they ask, are you Black? Are you White? What's your race? Oh you're very light skinned. You can't be this. So they make all of these commentaries that are just microaggressions and that's so common. And we see that common in the mainstream society. But do you think that's common in the Deaf Community, that you're able to identify microaggressions.

>> CIZZY BOGGAN: Oh, yes.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Actually before we delve into that question, we have a poll but I think Cicely you were raising your hand do you want to share something.

>> CICELY BOGGAN: This is Cicely signing, I was wondering if you could repeat your question.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: So again, it goes back to your identity. What you feel comfortable sharing about your identity with people. For instance, you shared that you are Black plus you identify with your Indigenous roots. So that's more of what I'm sharing about. Does that answer your question or add to it?

>> CICELY BOGGAN: This is Cicely signing . I think that international -- persons that are Deaf that live in other countries and internationally and globally probably have a different mindset than we do here. As opposed to -- I'm sorry;

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: You were signing something.

>> CICELY BOGGAN: Saudi Arabia, this is the sign for Saudi Arabia there are many friends I have from Pakistan, from Saudi Arabia from India and various other countries. And so I wanted to mention them. And when somebody takes a look at me and they make a decision, and then I can -- I have a response, a retort to them that they are misidentifying me.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: I'm thinking to myself do I want to ask this next question? Yes, I am going to ask the next question. But I want the audience members to be paying attention. I'm actually going to do a poll question. Just to see where people stand. So the first question is, again, I want you to go ahead and pick one so we're going to put up that poll and I want you to pick what you know about Critical Race Theory, CRT for short. Stephanie was just updating me in terms of what she's seeing come through on the chat. Now I'm just looking for the results we see here. So 51% says yes, they do understand CRT. Critical Race Theory. And we have 13% that say no. They do not understand Critical Race Theory. And then 35% are unsure. About what Critical Race Theory is. So 51% says yes. So we have another poll question to engage the audience. I'm going to sign the question. Do you understand the difference between racism and audism, that's the poll question. And it's great to see people commenting in the chat. So we have the results. So 94% say yes, they understand the difference between racism and audism. We have a total of 94%. And then we have 2% that says no, they do not understand the difference between racism and audism. And then 4% are unsure. So we will ask that question again at the end of this dialogue. So going back to the questions that I have for our panelists. So going back to your upbringing and to where you are today. What do you value most about who you are ? As your racial identity and who you identify as? What do you value the most? And what do you still carry from birth to where you are now? Can you share a little bit about that? And how that significance is who you are today? So I'm going to pick Cicely, you mentioned about you're Black with Indigenous roots. What are some cultural traditions or some cultural moments that you have that you want to share? Or even Nida, and Yoon, similar, you mentioned that you're from Asia. So can you share a little bit about how do you connect with or what's your most valuable moment in your identity? Like who you are. And where you're come from. What's that most valuable moment that you cherish and hold fast to, even today? I will give you some time to think about it. You know I know we're seeing a great number of people are here tonight. There are some individuals that identify as White. But again, this is open for everyone. This is an opportunity for people to connect with what the panelists are sharing. So Yoon, kick us off.

>> YOON LEE: There are actually a lot of things, one thing in particular being food. I do identify with traditional food. And kimchi for example. And you know, like various fermented cabbage dishes. There's a lot of traditional food that I identify with. And within Korean culture, we have like a new year celebration. And we all actually get -- we become one year older. So we actually have two birthdays in Korean culture. You're actually one when you're born and also when you have the new year happen you actually age one year. So that means every year, during the new year, in the morning I would, you know, bow in front of my elders and the family. And they would give me money. And that was kind of like a birthday celebration basically. So we actually get two gifts. And I actually still do bow any time I see an older Korean or an older Asian person in front of me. It's kind of automatic for me. And it's more of a formal way to say hello within like the politeness culture of career. If you see -- Korea, if you see somebody who is elder to you, I do bow and I do look down and it's kind of inherent. And that has stuck with me through the years.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Right, so in terms of respect and how we respect the elders. Thank you for sharing, Yoon. Nida?

>> NIDA DIN: That was a really good question. And definitely a loaded question, for sure.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Yes, hello. I'm the one moderating this panel. Of course it's a loaded question. (Chuckles).

>> NIDA DIN: So I do want to explain the understanding of what happens with the family when we moved. So my mother was born in Pakistani and all of her side of the family is there. And how we moved to the U.S. was because my parents were high-skilled workers. So we moved to America because of that so they had graduated from the top schools in Pakistan in engineering. And moving to America, education was a very big deal for my family. So I have a lot of uncles and aunties who are doctors, engineers, attorneys, I'm an attorney. So I come from a family that really values education as the top priority. And growing up I did struggle with that.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: So you're freezing just a little bit.

>> NIDA DIN: Oh, okay.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: You stopped off mentioning you will was your last --.

>> NIDA DIN: What was before that?

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Valuing education was what you were sharing on.

>> NIDA DIN: So both of my parents had taught me to have very good grades. So for example, if I got a 91, they would say, why isn't your score 100? You know? They were the true definition of like helicopter parents. So I did actually struggle with that because I am Deaf. And sometimes my parents forgot that I struggled with the lack of access to interpreters or lousy interpreters. So I had less access to resources, you know, with my other siblings who were older, they could hear and do well. But I actually did struggle. And later I learned that I also have a learning disability and I didn't know that until college. But my parents would get on me harder than my siblings. They wanted me to survive in this world. So that's why they were a little bit harder on me. But now I'm also very, very grateful to my parents. Because when I moved to Austin and started high school here, that's where I saw a Deaf education program for the first time and I was completely dumbfounded like, you know, it seemed so simple. For me to do these things. And -- I had to take a different approach because they approach Deaf people differently than what I was used to so they pushed me regardless of whether I was Deaf or not. And that's how you know I'm sure they couldn't have predicted I would be a successful lawyer but education was the key there.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Beautiful. We have Yoon that says respect is the most valuable moment that you carry with you today. Nida is education. So we have a comment -- we're actually going to hold on that comment/question. We're going to hold off on that and table that number later so someone was eager to ask a question but we're going to table that until we're done with the questions for our panelists but Nida you value education that still holds with you today. It's made who you are today. Yoon you have shared respect has made you who you are today. And also I remember the first time I met you and people had shared about you how oh he's a wonderful man, a beautiful heart. And I truly, truly respect and honor you. So thank you, Yoon, for sharing. Cicely?

>> CICELY BOGGAN: As I had mentioned, colonization is a big part of who I am now today because of that history of colonization. My previous generations in my family. And I was heart broken because of that. All of that knowledge and all of that history that was -- could have been passed along to me in my Native American heritage is now lost because of that history and the colonization and all of those cherished and valued wisdom that could have been shared. My mother is very -- well, let me restate what I was saying. My grandmother really more so because my grandmother is Native American. And she was at that time -- my husband -- excuse me. I thought I just saw a poll.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Sorry; some technical difficulties. Continue, Cicely.

>> CICELY BOGGAN: So she was actually responsible for our sisters and brothers as the oldest sibling with three other siblings so education was really valued. She was actually the first in her family to attend college. And get her license. And once she had children, that stuck with her as a value. To ensure that she instilled in them the importance of education. However, there was a different perspective on what she had hoped for or believed I could do because of the fact that I was Deaf and because of the fact that she felt I wouldn't be able to excel in understanding language and being able to read and being literate. All my family signed growing up. So I had full access to communication. And when I finally entered school, I went to a mainstream school, I already had learned how to read, I already learned math because I had older siblings that I could glean information from. And I was already excelling in those subjects because of that. And so for me, and my mom, education was very important. And I can see especially going into high school why it was so valued. Because especially as a Deaf person education was very, very important and something that's lacking in the Deaf Community. That's why I choose to become a teacher.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Thank you, Cicely, this is Crystal speaking. So what I'm getting from you is strength. What you described in terms of what your grandmother and grandparents went through was -- they emphasized the importance of education, the importance of getting and gaining knowledge, regardless if you're Deaf or hearing. So it seems like all three of you your parents envalued, passing something down onto you, doesn't matter if you're Deaf, Hearing or Hard of Hearing or whatever. Actually I didn't ask how do you all identify, Cicely Deaf, Nida is Deaf, Yoon is Deaf so everyone identifies as Deaf. So even though today we talk about racism, I'm curious to know your thought on deafness in terms of what you went through as you go through as a Person of Color and your deafness. Do you feel as though what you go through as a Person of Color is more -- is weightier than what you experience from being Deaf? Can you share a little bit about that?

>> NIDA DIN: Yes, I think it depends on which community or where -- where we're in. So regarding my employment experience, for example, I worked with three different employers prior to entering law. And the first two were both hearing. And I experienced a lot of audism. And a lot of issues with those employment opportunities. So I thought after that I wanted to work for like a Deaf company. Because of the values. And education. So then the third place is where I actually faced a lot of racism and sexism. As opposed to audism even though everybody was Deaf there so that's when I realized I'm actually different because I'm a Brown woman. And again I think it really depends on which environment or space we're in. So we kind of have to adjust and adapt.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Thank you, thank you, Nida. Yoon or Cicely.

>> CICELY BOGGAN: This is Cicely signing. So I just needed to get my bearings. It's tough as a Native American Black woman because -- and as a Deaf person. Oftentimes because of all of these intersectional identities that I have, persons doubt me. They say it's impossible for me to be so educated and for me to be intelligent. Because of these identities. And I would have a much harder time than my counterparts. And I fought hard. But then when I fought hard, I was considered aggressive. And so any time I had tried to navigate various spaces, it was always something negative. And it was always gaslighting that I was experiencing. It was regardless of whatever space I was enter, it was a very frustrating experience for me as a Deaf woman, as a Black and Native American Deaf woman.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Thank you, Cicely. Yoon?

>> YOON LEE: This is Yoon signing. I haven't had as bad of an experience with discrimination within employment. But, you know, I am a proud product of the Deaf Community. So I was President of junior NAD. And then I was President of various organizations within Gallaudet University. So I was part of the Deaf President Now protest as the photographer. I also did a lot of videography. I worked with pretty much all of the Deaf -- famous Deaf folks you can think of. And I have interviewed and worked with a lot of famous people, for example, Bernard Bragg. Clayton valli. And Stokoe and I. King Jordan, basically everybody you can possibly think of . So I've been walking within this Deaf Community for 30 years. And I'm really blessed to be here today. But they have never really seen me as Asian. They have seen me as a skilled worker. As a very good videographer and photographer. So I have never actually struggled to look for work because I am constantly offered these opportunities. So when I worked at Gallaudet, are you familiar with Deaf Mosaic.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Yes, I am actually. This is Crystal.

>> YOON LEE: Yeah to Deaf Mosaic did end up ending so some of the younger folks may not be familiar with it but it actually ran for 12 years before it shut down and I actually ended up flying to Alaska. Looking for a host for the program and they saw me as an Asian person and I was able to go to Alaska and work on that project because I am Asian and Deaf. And so I'm often asked or provided these opportunities. My father has a PDF. And my mother has -- my father has a PhD and my mother has a pharmacy degree so I come from a very well educated family . But my mother had a much harder life than me. Because English was tough for her. And I went through the Deaf program. So when I graduated from school, I, you know -- I was told that I should go to CSUN. And then I met a few other Deaf folks who actually graduated from the Gallaudet program. And then I transferred to Gallaudet. So I never actually felt like I had as many barriers.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Yoon, this is Crystal speaking. So I see that you get privileges from being Deaf and because of your race. So I really appreciate your positive frame on your identity and your experiences, being blessed to have those identities as opposed to seeing it as a negative. You did touch upon tokenism. And oh, Asian face, well, let's send them to Alaska, right? But that was a part for you because you had a chance to go to Alaska, right?

>> YOON LEE: Right ; right. Yeah, I wasn't complaining then.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Right, taking a look at it right now, we can see that. Nida, did you want to add?

>> NIDA DIN: So adding to that question, you know, comparing my experiences as a Pakistani-American versus as a Deaf person, when I experience discrimination as a Pakistani, I kind of internalize it. I internalize my oppression. Because I grew up in a very White area in the South. And I was one of the few within South Dakota. And there were a lot of Latinos around. But you know that made me very aware of my oppression. So I would just internalize that. And the message that my parents gave me was to be grateful. They would always tell me if we would have stayed in Pakistan, it would be way worse. And to be grateful as much as possible. And it's true like I wouldn't have been able to become a lawyer if I would have stayed in Pakistan. And that also leads to another challenge. Because that can prevent me from healing if I internalize all of this discrimination and oppression. If I speak up about oppression as a Pakistani-American as opposed to other oppressions that I experience, that can be a barrier to the healing.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Thank you, Nida, for sharing that. The four of us have something in common. That we're survivors. We're considered as survivors. But can we say that we're victims? Right? Because we have gone through some traumatic experiences. We have gone through trauma. And trauma can come from, again, traumatic experiences. And holding all of that together in us. And one experience can cause that retriggering. And for us to explode in that moment if that makes sense. So I think about racial trauma. So for people who go through the healing on a daily basis regarding racism. But I'm wondering for us, I'm wondering, what's the cause of racism? I mean, we are part right now dealing with the aftermath and the grieving of experiencing racism. And we do understand that -- we do understand that there's guilt that comes from that but I'm also wondering where does that come from. Individuals that cause racism are human. But then at the same time, what do we do with that? What do we do with the experience of that trauma? And how do you deal with that? With someone outside of your race, how do you deal with someone outside of your race that has caused that trauma or has caused that pain in you? I see that Yoon wants to go first to kind of just get it out of the way. But I want -- I want to actually have you three go off the screen. And then I want to go ahead and share a poem that just came on my heart that I want to express.


What's that?

Racism is not nice.

Racism is hurtful.

Racism is pain.


Do you not see me?


Do I not matter?



Enough is enough.


Hmmm, it takes my breath away.


It includes emotions.


Is a boulder with inside of me.

It's a boulder inside of my heart.

Racism is inside of my heart.


Poison that can kill.

Can that stop?

And how can that stop?

Love. Love is the answer.


The same as hate.

I'm going to ask the three panelists to come back on screen. Sorry; I didn't expect that to come out of me it was just an impromptu moment that I wanted to share what came on my heart. I wanted to remind people why we're here tonight. That poem I wanted to share. I know we've been having a lot of great conversations. And some people may have lost thought in terms of what the point of this is. But I want to acknowledge that the three of you and all of us are beautiful humans and I know we can go on for another two hours but I was trying to pick the most salient questions to answer tonight. Again, you know, we're human beings. Lawyers. Doctors. Other, other and other. Right? We are equal to everyone else. To them. Right? So why is there a them and an us? Why is there a division? You know, maybe oh, because I'm a Person of Color. But the point is being genuine to who you are. And how we can work together in unity. But still, we see division happening. So I'm just curious to know, why do you think there's still such division in our community? Especially in the Deaf Community. We see such hate spilled. Can anyone share on that? Actually this is Crystal still speaking. I didn't forget the previous question that I just asked you before you went offscreen. But again, this is going back to racism. Go ahead and answer, Cicely, I recognize you.

>> CICELY BOGGAN: This is Cicely signing. My mother would always say people will fight against something they don't understand. Because they fear what they don't understand. And people don't understand us Black people. And as a result, press us. And disregard us. And shun us because they don't understand us. So going back to your previous question that you had posed and trauma and in the workplace is something I experience and as a Grad Student in Deaf education, and being licensed in the field, as well, I'm a teacher, of course. Is predominantly White. And the field is predominantly White. So I feel as though my job as a result of tokenism. And the person -- one of my colleagues actually that is now my current colleague had reached out to me because I had a Master's in education because the spot was available. And I felt as though I just got the job because I was Black. Or a good part of that because I was Black. And I felt that crossed a line. And when I had decided to teach Black Deaf history, which I had actually written on the board Black Deaf history in the hallway that was readily accessible and everyone can see and had posted a lot of person's pictures and their information on that board, the person across from me in that hall, the other teacher, that happened to be White, looked at that board and said, we only teach about Martin Luther King. I decided to meet with an administrator after that moment. And I said that I don't feel comfortable here as a Black Deaf teacher. I don't feel safe here. Because I am the only Black Deaf person here. There are three other persons of color. But I'm the only Black Deaf person here. And how else can I teach my children? If you want me here, you have to trust that I will teach them my way. Why else would you have me here? Because this is what I specialize in. This is my experience that I'm bringing to them and sharing this information with them. So don't have anyone else intrude on my curriculum and what I plan on teaching them. So that's actually part of the problem. That causes trauma. And trauma that can be vertical trauma. And horizontal trauma. For not only myself but those children in that classroom and that space.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: This is Crystal responding to Cicely. Right now myself as a moderator, I want to share, continue doing what you're doing. Continue doing what you feel is right. What you just shared about your classroom experience is similar to CRT. Critical Race Theory. And being specific about the system. So what you shared again is specifically systematic. And how the system is a barrier to the success of our students. And having the question to ourselves is do I go ahead and speak up, possibly lose my job but knowing that my students will benefit from me speaking up. Critical Race Theory I think that's -- that came about 40 years ago there abouts. 1970s. That theory was developed. And it helps people to understand that the system itself is set up to benefit people who don't look like the system. So there's been evidence proven and shown over time that there are barriers that are in place, whether that's in housing. Employment. Education. Medicinal purposes. The legal system. All of those realms are influenced and affected by the system. And it impacts on children and People of Color. So again we look at Critical Race Theory and oftentimes we lump that where we're talking about teachers should be teaching, you know, about racial trauma. But that's separate. Critical Race Theory is instructed in colleges and universities to help adults understand that myself, if they are White, what I'm going through in my upbringing of school, what I'm learning about slavery or if they haven't had experience with that, there's a lot of experiences that are not taught in schools about Black history. Or Asian history or what have you. That has contributed to America. So I want to just say thank you so much for bringing that up. Sorry; I lost my train of thought. Again. But I did ask you to let me know when we're closing in on time. So we do have a couple of minutes -- we have about 15 minutes or so. You may have already answered some of these questions in your responses. So this next question is about clumping everyone together. Taking a look at what it means to teach about race. What it means to teach about oppression. And now comparing that within the Deaf Community, taking a look and unpacking that within the Deaf Community itself. How are we teaching about race and oppression in the Deaf Community? Is there racism in the Deaf Community? So I know Cicely you already answered that question in terms of the trauma that you just experienced. And often we think, you know, again, continue doing right. And I applaud you for doing what is right. So I want to ask the other panelists, Yoon and Nida, have you experienced racism or have you ever had that fork in the road of what to do in terms of a racial experience and the decision that you made? Nida?

>> NIDA DIN: This is Nida speaking. That is a very challenging question. And I can't speak for other Pakistani-Americans but for myself as a Pakistani -- person as a Pakistani person I have to think about how I'll survive in this country. So my parents came here from Pakistan and they were already dealing with, you know, the traditions of my parents. And American culture, living in South Dakota. The only other People of Color within my school were Latinos. And they noticed that I didn't have the same like blue eyes as other folks. So I had these two different forces pressing upon me and then also I have this other factor ofDeaf deafness and how does that all engage and interface with each other? So I didn't really recognize racism until many, many years later. And I'll give you one perfect example from my job. This was my first job after college, which I'm very grateful for. I was working on some workshops. And I had a co-worker who was Deaf. We were the only ones who were Deaf there. And one person asked me to go to the kitchen and make some coffee. And I told that person, I don't actually know how to make coffee. And they actually called me the help. And they -- I felt guilty. You know, this was like a new job. And I didn't want to do poorly. But many years later, and of course I've moved on from that experience. But later I realized that that was actually very racist. You know like my family doesn't make coffee we actually make chi. We have tea bags and spices and water so we don't even actually own a coffee machine. And even to this day, they still don't use a coffee machine. We use an old-fashioned way of making drinks. So that was very inappropriate. And at that time in the moment, I was very much a people pleaser. I wanted to do a good job. I wanted to help. You know, I apologized, I said, oh, I'm so sorry. So that's kind of a little bit about my experience, the oppression that I had faced. And in that moment I had internalized it. And I didn't confront it at that time. I mean, that happened more than 10 years ago. And I think about that. And I sometimes wonder should I confront that person. Like I've moved on. I'm sure that person has moved on. So I also have to wonder if it's worth it. You know, is it worth it to confront that person and discuss what had happened? Or is it better to let go and just move on? So I kind of go back and forth with that.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: This is Crystal responding. I definitely could go on and on in my response to that. But again, Stephanie is alerting me of the time. I know I asked you to help me. But I was definitely not looking at the time. But nonetheless, I'm going to move on. So you all have beautiful and great souls. And you know what to do. So I want to ask you about how your responses have created good. And I see that that's where it's coming from. And to radiate that goodness. And sometimes it may do sometimes harm to ourselves and to the other person. But acknowledging that it was for a good reason. And that good reason is being on that healing journey. And how you can invoke change from that situation. Where you may feel a bit disheartened. But if something like that happens, remembering and acknowledging that feeling. And then some people may say, well, was that really racism? But again, we have to think about the term microaggressions. And how that can make someone feel belittled or less than. Or less than about your culture, right? Making coffee and you make tea in your culture. Because making tea is who you are. That's your culture. And it's not your fault. And where people can insert their own assumptions or insert their own questions about you and you feel something. And that moment you go back to recognize your culture and value that. Because it's a value that's part of who you are. And so it's good to acknowledge and recognize that feeling. And recognize the person who caused that. Who caused that experience. And why. But also knowing that they also have a heart that you can respond to. You can respond from your heart. Why did that make me feel that way? Or you know, I didn't like to feel that pain. And I want to remove that pain. And you can do that by acknowledging the pain. And taking a look at it. And facing that pain. And making a decision to address the person. I know that that happened a while ago for you. But again, at the same time you can actually say something like, well, thank you for letting me know that, I didn't know. Maybe the person was doing that to other people. And other people didn't tell them that it was causing them pain or was oppressive just in that small comment. So you mentioning that could create change through education. And it could not just be you. But it could be myself as a Black person, as a Person of Color. We all have moments of education. So my question is can non-White people experience -- can non-White people be racist? Cicely did you want to respond.

>> CICELY BOGGAN: The simple answer no.

>> YOON LEE: Yeah I mean White people can experience racism if they go to another country. If they come to Korea, people will make fun of them for being White. You know, if somebody from Europe comes -- well, I have several friends who have experienced that. You know, where my country doesn't accept people who are White. You know, people say like oh, wow, you have blue eyes, I've never seen that before. I've never seen a girl with blue eyes before. And that would happen in my country. So almost every country has its own experiences with racism. But again, you know, for example, if I went to the Black Deaf Community, I might feel dismissed by them. And I have friends that are White and have married folks of other colors. And they have experienced that discrimination. And I've heard those experiences. You know, when we talk about Asian cultures, Korean culture is very different from like Indian culture. So I feel like I've experienced a lot of different oppressions based on who I have married and my hearing status. I used to date hearing girls. And I would go to their parents' house and the parents would ask me if I could drive and is that because of racism or audism? You know? So there's a lot of variations on that experience. So something that I want to tip me hat off to the Deaf Community that they are very smart and they know how to survive. Whether they have experienced discrimination, racism, oppression, there's a lot of adaptation that happens within the Deaf Community in order to survive. So a lot of folks face this situation every single day. And get through it. Even if they experience these various forms of discrimination. And the Deaf Community does know how. They may not know why. But they know how to adapt. And that -- all Deaf people have experienced discrimination and rejection at some point in their lives. And you know for example, in my case, I married an Indian woman so I faced different experiences. So it really depends on the community. And I really do tip my hat off to the Deaf Community in that regard.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Yoon, I wanted to respond quickly before but I'm going to have Cicely share first.

>> CICELY BOGGAN: I actually wanted to clarify, are you talking about xenophobia, racism? Or -- which ism in particular? Because a White person cannot experience racism. Because if a White person goes to another country, they may have -- there may have been traumatic experiences historically that rears itself in Japan, for example, because if that White person then visits Japan, and there was that history, that traumatic history between Japanese and Americans, then that Japanese person has experienced that trauma just simply by seeing a White person. And as an Indigenous person, again, I want to recognize what they had gone through. And that's a history that we don't want to repeat itself. Xenophobia and racism are very different. And so while I recognize the validity of what your comments are, I do not believe White people can actually experience racism. Because the system is run by them. And things are run by them. Here. And as a Black Deaf woman, I have to fight through this system. And I have to find my place in the world. And I had to navigate it very differently than a White person did because they did not have to go through the same experiences and navigate as I did.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: I see Nida wants to respond. I did want to respond first, though. I mean, you are very brave. I mean, I love what you just shared in terms of speaking up for those White people who feel as though, oh, my gosh, for the last couple of years enough is enough. I mean, am I really that bad of a person, et cetera? They have these feelings that go inside of them. But you're speaking up for them. And I must say I applaud you in helping us to understand from a different perspective. So I want to say thank you to that. Nida and then I did want to go to other comments. But again, people have never agreed on what racism really is. What we need to do is recognize that people do experience pain. White people experience pain, as well. And whether -- and whether people who experience it because of their skin color or their environment or where they go, people will experience discrimination. And have different experiences with that. And so that's the question. Can White people experience racism. If -- racism is based on skin color. And so I recognize that pain -- excuse me. So both -- I mean, we all experience pain. So we all have to work together to heal in that pain. So we can't ignore that pain. We have to work together to talk about that pain that we're experiencing. So should we go ahead and talk about that pain? Or do we ignore the pain and just work together and move forward and perhaps shoving it under the rug. That's one question. So I'm going to go ahead and ask the question again and give you a minute or so to think about it. The question is pain. What one feels. As a Person of Color. So as a White person, they also have pain. Maybe they have experienced trauma because of what they have seen another person do. But they are experiencing pain still. So do you recommend that the two of those individuals talk to share about that experience, to share about healing past that pain? Or do they just work together and put that aside? So when it comes to the healing process, do we actually need to work together with each other on the emotional part before we can actually work together effectively? Do we collaborate on a heart perspective first? For instance, working on the side with a person who has caused trauma to another person because of their skin color. Does that question make sense? Anyone want to share out? And this is a part of the healing journey. Because I know that there's many of us who are watching and people may share and it gets emotional. And it's part of that healing journey. And sometimes it does get messy. People take a break. Taking time away. Something that has triggered them. And so perhaps they take that break and then reconvene to continue on with healing with each other. Is that something that we could -- should continue doing? We can give it a couple of minutes. I mean, should we take a couple of weeks to think about this, then reconvene? What are your thoughts? Again, I'll ask the question. So myself as an individual, as a Person of Color, there's another White person. And I've experienced trauma. So I realize, I can't work with this person who is White. They are retriggering. They reinvoke those emotions. Is that effective to just walk away? And leave that aside, work on myself individually and then come back to reconvene with that person to continue on with the journey. That's the first part of the question. So I want to give everyone at least a minute to think about the question to then respond. So this is the last question for the panelists. And then I'm going to open up the floor to the audience to share. So does everyone feel ready? Yes, Nida?

>> NIDA DIN: I think it really depends on the individual and their personality. And how comfortable they are with confronting folks. So when something comes up or an issue arises, regarding work, I always need time personally to process and think about everything. You know, I have to consider why do I feel this way? Why -- you know, what are these emotions I'm experiencing. And I have to analyze that. And I think one thing that's important to me now that I didn't have before is I make my own safe space. And I'm proud to say that I have found other Deaf South Asian individuals that I can get together with where I can talk to these experiences as a Pakistani Deaf person with other Deaf Pakistanis because I didn't actually have that growing up and I realized that recently that I need that so I've been blessed to find that. You know, if it's something regarding my race, you know, that's a safe space where I can unpack that and get other peoples' perspectives on what it's like as a Deaf Pakistani person and process everything and then maybe I can go back to that person. If I still have those feelings. And that time to think also helps me approach a very sensitive subject. You know, there could be a lot of hurt feelings. So we have to tread very carefully on how we word things. You know in the moment I can't just go off, you know, like I really need time away from it to be with it, sit with it and think with it.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Thank you. Cicely.

>> CICELY BOGGAN: Generational trauma is real. And that trauma, that horizontal trauma is real. And it can be passed down from generation to generation. And I work with a White man that when I see him, I recognize the power and the privilege and the authority that this person has. And I see that in my entire world everywhere I go. And oftentimes I struggle with the interactions that I have with these persons that oftentimes dismiss or belittle the things that I say and say them as they are not truth. And I'm trying to speak my truth to them. But I know that it's not their fault. Because I will react to other persons of that same race and that same identity because of the trauma that I've experienced with this person one. And -- this one person and because the fear is there. And the fear is real. And it's hard to interact with a person when I have the fear of that person as a Black person. Because I recognize they are in a place -- in a position of authority.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: So I want to hold before I get to Yoon. What she just shared is the concept of fear. I want us to sit within that. Racism is fear, one. Racism is fear. But it is what it is. I didn't think I would have to pull this up on the screen, it is what it is block. But it is what it is. Fear is real. Yoon, I know that you're taking a look at the chat. Stay engaged in the conversation, Yoon, don't look at the chat. But last I would like for Yoon to respond.

>> YOON LEE: Sorry; I was looking at the chat and trying to catch up on all of the comments. Okay. So I really respect your perspective, Cicely. And you know, I've been thinking about I feel like I've been busy thinking about a lot of experiences that I've had as racism. And I guess that's just part of my human nature. Does that mean every experience with racism creates the idea of fear? I mean, I definitely have had traumatic bad experiences for sure. Which I guess I don't have time to explain now. But I have learned that how to respect others in their daily lives.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: So you actually have time. But I just wanted to see where we were. So I'm curious, how do you experience racism or racism -- trauma based on racism? You know, one of the things that you mentioned is just having that pain. But can you elaborate just a little bit for us?

>> YOON LEE: I'm sorry; I don't experience fear. So I have a hard time identifying with that. But I do know that it is a constant. So for example, I had a bad car accident. And my girlfriend was in the car. And she had blond. And she had blue eyes. And she actually passed away in that car accident. And that was really hard on me. I mean, it was racism in a different way because my girlfriend's family saw me in a different way. So I definitely experienced rejection from that. But the fear of dating another White girl, I mean, I had a very bad experience with that. So I kind of felt like what am I supposed to do with this other than move on? So I kind of built my own safe space, like Nida had mentioned before. Where I felt comfortable as I am. And I grew with it. So I never thought of myself as an Asian Deaf person. I have always identified myself as Yoon and people are aware of my skills and what I'm good at. So I became the go-to guy. So I did not hold onto the past like that. I guess I've grown and evolved from it. But the pain was definitely there. I used to teach at Riverside in California. And every year there was a TV class that I was teaching. I did experience racism with that school. You know, there were very few Asians. It was a 90% White school at the time and there were very few Deaf Asians so I actually wasn't sure -- like I didn't really know if the things I was experiencing was racism or not. But I've never had blatant comments like, oh, I can't work with you because you're Korean. We just have to work hard together. It's not just racism we have to consider the Deaf Community is suffering in many ways so we always have to continuously build that bridge over and over.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: With that question about racism and audism, we'll definitely share more later there's a lot of questions about that, Nida did you want to respond to that before I open it up to the audience.

>> NIDA DIN: Yeah, after listening to both Yoon and Cicely, I think I want to change my answer just a little bit. So I realize I do have privilege as a Pakistani person because we are considered the model minority. There's a stereotype type that a lot of Pakistanis and Indians and other Asians are smart and very good at science and math and highly educated. So when it came to employment, I wasn't experiencing that kind of discrimination. But Pakistanis and Indians already have a good reputation. So I did have privilege in that sense of being a model minority. And that's a little bit of a different perspective. But when it comes to relationships, I couldn't date a White man. Because dating a White hearing man that has a lot more privilege, that would be a constant reminder to me that I, you know, couldn't have the same privilege. Like I wanted a Deaf person who was BIPOC. Like I knew that that would just be a constant reminder of that privilege to me. And it would cause a lot of emotions that just weren't going to be worth it for me.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: This is Crystal speaking. I'm going to hold on that tone that you just left for us. I want to open it up to the audience. I just want to check in on time. So we actually don't have 40 minutes left. We actually only have 5 minutes. And so I do want to wrap up. But before I do so, I want to apologize for the others who have so many questions that are coming up in the chat. And I thought we definitely had more time. But it has escaped me. So what I will do is those who have questions, go ahead and send those questions off into the Q&A. And we'll make sure that we get your questions answered. We're willing to also for those who want to use ASL, you can -- we'll allow you to turn on your video to ask in ASL. So that's, again, those are the two options. But I did want to wrap up. I wish we had more time. I know one of the interpreters has to leave. But I want to say that tonight has been a beautiful dialogue. We have touched upon a number of different topics. And in the wrapup, I want to share about -- it's been really nice to have everyone here. But I also want to say thank you for your time. In terms of tonight, this being a journey, in terms of healing, being the part of this process, I want to say thank you for joining us.

>> NIDA DIN: Thank you.

>> CICELY BOGGAN: Thank you for having us.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: Thank you panelists, it was such a beautiful panel. If you don't mind turning off your videos. Great, I want to say thank you to Stephanie and Kirsten. I want to leave with a healing message to show that we all are in agreement and together. We are here as NAD to know that we are in this. And we saw the three panelists sharing their experiences within the Deaf Community. And I can't imagine how that is for others. And so I know that there are others who are within this community. And we may not know about their experiences. But there's an opportunity for us here at NAD to work together. And so I do want to acknowledge the various top issues that you know we want to resolve but it's not going to happen overnight. It's a journeying process. And healing begins with each and every one of you and participating internally on your own but also collectively, as well. Acknowledging that pain. Addressing that pain. And again, deciding to go forward to make change for the good out of that pain. And you can do so by working together. I believe it can be done. Can racism be dismantled? That begs the question. With hope, yes. Keep hope alive. Right? So I want us to continue to remember that. I want to really thank our panelists. Nida, Yoon and Cicely for sharing their messages tonight, for sharing their narratives, narratives of strength, of hope and unity. So again I want to say thank you to all for this opportunity.

>> KRISTEN POSTON: And we will have more webinars in the future. And leading up to the NAD conference in July.

>> CRYSTAL SCHWARTZ: So I'm going to go ahead and turn off my camera and leave this to Stephanie and Kirsten to take us home.

>> STEPHANIE HAKULIN: Thank you, Crystal. Time has flown by. I've seen that there was a litany of questions that we had in the chat and we certainly couldn't address all of them but we have learned so much through these person's experiences. And one theme that we have seen throughout this session is that healing takes time. It's not just a 24-hour thing. It takes multiple efforts over a period of time. And trainings. And we see that there's now curriculum being developed for these three webinars. And hopefully we'll be able to have a session in March. We're looking forward to that. And if there's any trainings or webinars that you're looking forward to also participating in, please reach out to us. Kirsten?

>> KRISTEN POSTON: And there is no charge for these webinars. So please look out for more announcements from NAD. And please send us your questions. Our coordinators have been typing them down and we will share the email that you can send your questions to in the chat. Thank you for watching.

>> STEPHANIE HAKULIN: I would like to thank the interpreters as well as the captioning service. So the next time we'll see you is the next meeting. Until then, take care of yourselves. Thank you. And so long.

>> KRISTEN POSTON: Take care.

This is the kickoff webinar to the NAD’s monthly series of action towards the priority: Dismantling Racism in the Deaf Community. This event will focus on identifying and reframing perspectives of what it means to have real talk and good actions about racism. We will highlight past stories of racism that still exist today. Panelists will share their perspectives on how one can heal through racial trauma. The panel will discuss racial issues in the Deaf community and share their own healing experience and will be moderated by Crystal Kelley Schwartz, known for her expertise on healing and collaboration.


Crystal is smiling.Crystal Kelley Schwartz is an educator, advocate, and sign language consultant. Her experience includes working as an ASL professor, mentor, tutor, and evaluator; as well as ASL Director for several prominent theatres in Chicago, Illinois. She holds several credentials in risk management and language mediation. Currently, she is contracted independently with several schools and organizations and also works as a family involvement specialist. She has traveled nationwide to provide motivational workshops and training for over 25 years. She is honored to be part of this historically ground breaking monthly series towards the NAD’s priority, Dismantling Racism in the Deaf Community, moderating a panel of affluent and profound individuals of color, on the impact of racism in the Deaf community.
Cizzy is smiling.Cizzy is a native Chicagoan and avid book reader. She earned her Bachelor in Interdisciplinary Studies with concentration in Education from Northeastern Illinois University and is currently pursuing a Master’s in Elementary and Deaf Education at Gallaudet University. Cizzy’s goal is to change the education system for the deaf within, starting with one deaf student at a time. Her classroom starts with recognizing differences and embracing them, rather than allowing them to divide us. Like Audre Lorde, a black American poet and writer would say, “It is not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize, accept, and celebrate those differences.”
Nida is smiling.Nida Din has a BBA in Consulting and Change Management from the University of Texas and a JD from the University of Houston Law Center. Nida is the first Deaf, Pakistani-American, female attorney in the country. Nida is also one of the few attorneys in Texas that is fluent in American Sign Language (ASL). Nida is currently working at the Austin Community Law Center in Austin, Texas, and practices family law and estate planning. She mainly serves immigrants, people of color, domestic violence survivors, people with disabilities, and low-income clients.
Yoon is smiling.Yoon Lee graduated from Gallaudet University with a bachelor’s degree in TV, Film and Photography. He was a Student Photographer for the Deaf President Now movement and his pictures were published in “The Week the World Heard Gallaudet”. He was one of the hosts for Deaf Mosaic’s “Alaska: The Last Frontier”. Lee traveled and worked for various companies such as Dawn Sign Press, Communication Service for the Deaf, Northeastern University. He retired from the California School for the Deaf, Riverside, as a TV Teacher after producing 30 short movies with high school students throughout 10 years. Currently, Lee teaches ASL classes at Palomar College and teaches homeschooled students. He completed Deaf Interpreting Training and now mentors Interpreting Training Program students. Lee is inspired daily by his wife and daughter. In his free time, he organizes monthly Deaf Socials and writes movie scripts.

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